Electric Vs Nitro

[bc24fl]

Yup, I know, same old tired E vs N discussion. :)

I'm starting to "believe" in Electric more and more after a couple of years playing with nitro.

Am I wrong or does Electric have the advantage in these areas vs the nitro.

1. Cheaper in the long run
2. Faster
3. Less maintenance
4. No pit man needed
5. Cleaner for the anal
6. Indoor race-able with no noise or smell
7. Easier to tune. Motor is computer programmable ?&^. No damn needles to mess with.

The only negative I've seen about electric thus far is the initial startup costs but other than that it seems to be the way. I wonder how hard it would be to turn the K8T into a clean Female8T. :cool:

[DustinH]

Don't forget cost of fuel and plugs. I am thinking I should have got a Fusion rather than a ZX1.5.

[bc24fl]

Yup... lol just paid $30 for a gallon of Maxy's.

Does this conversion kit work with the K8T? This kit has a new chassis that I don't need (or do I)? http://www.casterracingusa.com/product.php?productid=426&cat=0&page=1

[Dave D]

Electrics do have some high points but as far as big races if they don't have which most don't have a seperate class the electrics would have problems doing the mains since most are 45-60 minutes long. I love the long mains and hit as many races with them as possible. Also when ever you electric guy's are charging your lipo's it takes forever and you are putting a bunch of radiation into the air and I'm not a cancer patient so I'll stay with NITRO.

[bc24fl]

Electrics do have some high points but as far as big races if they don't have which most don't have a seperate class the electrics would have problems doing the mains since most are 45-60 minutes long. I love the long mains and hit as many races with them as possible. Also when ever you electric guy's are charging your lipo's it takes forever and you are putting a bunch of radiation into the air and I'm not a cancer patient so I'll stay with NITRO.

I thought during these long mains there was a 5 min break every 15 mins? If so then electric are only limited by # of lypos. With 4 lypos you're good for the whole hour.

[cheesecake]

lol yeah radiation from charging batteries how about all the oil in your nitro fuel and polluting the environment also brusheless 1/8 will be a big class in the upcoming years. there will be tripple a mains and mains will be 10 minutes in length with the right setup you can easilly achaive a 5 minute main some you can get 25+ depending on battery size. starting off it can even cost the same im still trying to figure out why everyone thinks it costs more to go brushless then it does to start off with nitro.

go brushless save the envirement

[bc24fl]

lol yeah radiation from charging batteries how about all the oil in your nitro fuel and polluting the environment also brusheless 1/8 will be a big class in the upcoming years. there will be tripple a mains and mains will be 10 minutes in length with the right setup you can easilly achaive a 5 minute main some you can get 25+ depending on battery size. starting off it can even cost the same im still trying to figure out why everyone thinks it costs more to go brushless then it does to start off with nitro.

go brushless save the envirement

It's really the lypos and having to buy 2 chargers for simultaneous charging that breaks the bank. Then add the motor plus esc and you can get in the $500's very fast.

But none-the-less I think I've seen the light.

[razzor]

done the maths for a few years now and what your staement says is basically true.
Initial outlay for electric is higher than nitro but overall running expenses is lower.
The appeal though is dependant on the individual.
To those that are not clued up mechanically etc.. they always frown on electric but to those more technical minded they see the benefits of electric more.
For me personally each has its appeal and i enjoy both but to some its biased to what you know and dont know.

[cheesecake]

you can get 1 charger to charge 2 batteries and you can get a charger and lipos for under 400 dollars if you shop around for the lipos. but you figure a race engine is 200 plus your 85-100 dollar starter box you 2 gallons of fuel 2 glow plugs and 2 servos your way up there also. so in all reality it costs about the same

[razzor]

yeah but you not replacing or repeat buying like you do glow plugs and fuel etc...

[Dave D]

I thought during these long mains there was a 5 min break every 15 mins? If so then electric are only limited by # of lypos. With 4 lypos you're good for the whole hour.

Nope NO BREAKS WHAT SO-EVER. Last year I Ran a 45 Minute B-Main then turn marshalled for 45 minutes then I had to get back on the stand for 60 minutes then Marshal for another 60. It would have been nice to have just qualified for the A to begin with.

Today 12:11 PMrazzoryeah but you not replacing or repeat buying like you do glow plugs and fuel etc...
I have seen people puff batteries all the time and they are not cheap at all, plus I have seen Rick go through several Motors and speed controlers just this last year and it cost him just as much for one of those as my V-Spec and he went through a couple. I have been on the same glow plug throughout the whole Delta RC Winter Series. 7 races plus a couple before the series started.
I had to buy my first glow plug in about 5 months so I could break in the Grenade. So to keep the costs down you chum up to all the hobbie shops and you get them to give you plugs for free and then when you go to pay for fuel you hand them however much money it would be at cost and tell them they are eating the profits for the advertisement. I have paid retail for 3 gallons of fuel since I got into RC 1 1/2 yrs ago and that was becouse where I go he was out or I was somewhere in California and didn't know any one at the Hobbie Shops.

[cheesecake]

Nope NO BREAKS WHAT SO-EVER. Last year I Ran a 45 Minute B-Main then turn marshalled for 45 minutes then I had to get back on the stand for 60 minutes then Marshal for another 60. It would have been nice to have just qualified for the A to begin with.

Today 12:11 PMrazzoryeah but you not replacing or repeat buying like you do glow plugs and fuel etc...
I have seen people puff batteries all the time and they are not cheap at all, plus I have seen Rick go through several Motors and speed controlers just this last year and it cost him just as much for one of those as my V-Spec and he went through a couple. I have been on the same glow plug throughout the whole Delta RC Winter Series. 7 races plus a couple before the series started.
I had to buy my first glow plug in about 5 months so I could break in the Grenade. So to keep the costs down you chum up to all the hobbie shops and you get them to give you plugs for free and then when you go to pay for fuel you hand them however much money it would be at cost and tell them they are eating the profits for the advertisement. I have paid retail for 3 gallons of fuel since I got into RC 1 1/2 yrs ago and that was becouse where I go he was out or I was somewhere in California and didn't know any one at the Hobbie Shops.

i retyped that last part for you





i mooch off of peasey and fellow racers and steal my fuel from peoples fuel bottle hoping they dont see me dumping their fuel into my car... lol jk<*&<*&

but in reality if its setup right in brushless you dont have failures and puffed lipos. but there is the possibility just like a rod snapping or anything else it can hap and most likely will

[hakmazter]

Yup, I know, same old tired E vs N discussion. :)

I'm starting to "believe" in Electric more and more after a couple of years playing with nitro.

Am I wrong or does Electric have the advantage in these areas vs the nitro.

1. Cheaper in the long run Yes.
2. Faster Yes.
3. Less maintenance Yes.Infinitely less!
4. No pit man needed Depends on length of race.
5. Cleaner for the anal YES!
6. Indoor race-able with no noise or smell YES!
7. Easier to tune. Motor is computer programmable ?&^. No damn needles to mess with. The reason why I got involved!
The only negative I've seen about electric thus far is the initial startup costs but other than that it seems to be the way. I wonder how hard it would be to turn the K8T into a clean Female8T. :cool:

my reply.

[bc24fl]

Is there tranny ;) conversion kit for the K8T to F8T? I checked but the cart only lists one for the buggy. This one http://www.casterracingusa.com/product.php?productid=426&cat=0&page=1

[Dave D]

I tried racing a T4 a couple of months ago and I couldn't run smooth for the life of me through the rhythm sections and I was totally discombobulated becouse I couldn't hear my motor and it totally screws me up.

NITRO 100%

[DustinH]

That is part of my problem, not hearing the motor. It is so much easier for me to drive when I can hear my car for some reason.

[hakmazter]

Is there tranny ;) conversion kit for the K8T to F8T? I checked but the cart only lists one for the buggy. This one http://www.casterracingusa.com/product.php?productid=426&cat=0&page=1


So I would assume you need a chopadickoffame, not an addadicktome, correct?

We will see if you recognize the terms by who uses them.......official test for bc24fl.

I would think we could get a truggy kit for the same deal, just the other plate instead.

[razzor]

So I would assume you need a chopadickoffame, not an addadicktome, correct?

We will see if you recognize the terms by who uses them.......official test for bc24fl.

I would think we could get a truggy kit for the same deal, just the other plate instead.

:).........

[bc24fl]

LOL, so is a new chassis needed or can I roll with what I got for now?

[badassrevo]

you will have to drill holes to mount the battery trays if you use the original chassis.
the new chassis is different.

[bc24fl]

you will have to drill holes to mount the battery trays if you use the original chassis.
the new chassis is different.

Is it just the holes or the dimensions/thickness as well? Sounds like the difference is 4 holes???

[razzor]

the center diff sits more central on the chassis and maybe a bit more forward.

[puba187]

hey guys don't forget about clutches, rx packs, additional packs for the bump box, glow igniter (and remembering to charge that stupid thing:mad:) new fuel line every couple of races, air filters/oil, man i could go about this for hours but you all get the idea.

i first got in touch with mike because i wanted to run the fusion but after a good bit of turning it over in my head i just couldn't bring myself to do it. not because i don't believe in the car or anything like that i just don't think the technology is up to par quite yet. batteries are rather expensive and you will need 2 sets and there is no way you can get around it. and more importantly i'm in this hobby because i love to race and there is just not a whole lot of races that you can run in with the nitro boys with out them whining when you kick the crap out of them.

as for hearing the motor.... i guess i'm just used to it. i have ran 10th scale 2wd for years and it is by far my favorite class. the motors are much smoother and the powerband is linear in almost every electric motor whether it is brushed or brushless.

but hey who knows next year i may be running an electric 8th scale. i honestly hope so?&^.

[Mr Fusion]

You know which side I'm on... lol

But, I want to say that some guys expect to have ZERO problems when going to electric... and that's just not the way things work most of the time. Just like nitro, things can and do go bad with electric cars too. Motors and escs can fail... batteries can be damaged or wear out.

I've seen a number of times where guys will have a problem like that, and get on the rctech, etc and start bitching about it... and how they are going back to nitro, etc. But in reality, they switched from nitro to start with because of so many headaches... so maybe they should take up a hobby like static models or something. lol

But, as a whole... I think electric has less issues and is less frustrating on most days.

What we really need is a small but very loud sound generator to go in the electric cars, just to make the nitro guys feel more at home. I think that's what Hak should be working on.

[Dave D]

What we really need is a small but very loud sound generator to go in the electric cars, just to make the nitro guys feel more at home. I think that's what Hak should be working on.

Last winter I was racing my crt.5 indoors in sacramento and the first time I went there I was over at the nitro starting area and with about 15 seconds left of the race before mine I started my engine and 7 out of the 10 on the drivers stand all started yelling and screaming and complaining that they couldn't hear.
New rule got posted that day. If your running Nitro you can't start it until the anouncer starts to call of names that they are finished.

That's when I found out that electric classes are full of whiny cry babies named cheesecake

[razzor]

Fusion you could always put a piece of lexan to run again the center outdrive like we used to do on our bicycles when we where kids.

[bc24fl]

But, I want to say that some guys expect to have ZERO problems when going to electric... and that's just not the way things work most of the time. Just like nitro, things can and do go bad with electric cars too. Motors and escs can fail... batteries can be damaged or wear out.

I've seen a number of times where guys will have a problem like that, and get on the rctech, etc and start bitching about it... and how they are going back to nitro, etc. But in reality, they switched from nitro to start with because of so many headaches... so maybe they should take up a hobby like static models or something. lol



There is no doubt I've had my fair share of problems, but I think I've come a long way from where I've been just less than a year ago when I didn't even know what a dremel tool was. Glad my engine puddle days are gone. :o

I think what attracts me the most to electric besides those I mentioned in the first post is its binary nature. It either works or it doesn't no matter how high you are above the earth's atmosphere, and/or regardless of temps, and/or other factors beyond our control. If nothing major changes and/or breaks, your electric should operate the same it did 2 weeks ago.

A nitro engine is so sensitive to all of this you pretty much have to master the needles for all of those variables. And even when you think you've mastered it, someone comes along and shows you how to do it better and more efficiently. I think the "60% Mechanic 30% Driver" applies to both but more so in nitro because of the engine tuning.

Do you know most people still think that when your computer slows over time it has to do with the physical components of the computer (aaaaa thanks for playin). :):).

[bc24fl]

Are you kidding me... only 1 servo for electric. ?&^

[pete26]

My buddy Bob said it best.When a nitro drive system breaks you fix it but when an electric drive system breaks you replace it.I like them both but prefer the piston.I got into this hobby because of it's resembelance to motocross. The sound and power delivery of a two stroke motor is just part of the fun for me.But I do plan to get an F8T as soon as I can afford it.It's obviously more efficient.Sux not havin' break bias though.

[bc24fl]

My buddy Bob said it best.When a nitro drive system breaks you fix it but when an electric drive system breaks you replace it.I like them both but prefer the piston.I got into this hobby because of it's resembelance to motocross. The sound and power delivery of a two stroke motor is just part of the fun for me.But I do plan to get an F8T as soon as I can afford it.It's obviously more efficient.Sux not havin' break bias though.

Well put.

I took a mechanics class in high school and after a few months of it I knew pretty fast I hated it.

Don't get me wrong though, nitro is a BLAST but for me right now I just prefer the ease of electric.

Now if I can figure out how to get the motor connected to the ESC I'd be one step closer. :confused:

[badassrevo]

just hook up the wires, if it goes backwards swap two wires.

[bc24fl]

just hook up the wires, if it goes backwards swap two wires.

Wish it were that easy. I have to soldier them to motor.

[badassrevo]

If you were closer, I would do it for you and give you a class. I am ISO 9000 certified and have been through hours and hours of avionics maintenance classes.

[bring it on]

[quote=Dave D;23067] "plus I have seen Rick go through several Motors and speed controlers just this last year and it cost him just as much for one of those as my V-Spec and he went through a couple."
Dave,
You are correct on motor and speed controllers going bad but that's the difference between nitro engines and motors. All my esc & motors that went bad were under warranty. Was a learning experience with the novak 1/8th stuff. Not good. So far the mamba monster stuff has been great for me.:)

[bc24fl]

I found this vid helpful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9yY9Kk4bEA

[razzor]

lately i found a large number of esc issues has been from using inadequate batteries and high kv motors. Either esc gets fried or they pop caps.
Also for brushless a good quality solder joint makes a huge difference and also regularly resoldering motor wires.

On the Speedpassion esc and mod motors for onroad we had plenty of problems but it turned out the motors where drawing plenty amps and caused the motor wires to get dry joints since then all is good.

[bc24fl]

lately i found a large number of esc issues has been from using inadequate batteries and high kv motors. Either esc gets fried or they pop caps.


Yeah well just like Obama, I subscribe to the big bang theory. :)

Hopefully I shouldn't have any warranty issues given that everything I purchased was from a single source.

[bc24fl]

Plugged everything up outside the car and fired up quickly.

Only issue now is getting another pinion as I stripped mine and getting a longer sensor cable.

The batteries don't seem to fit so I"m thinking of standing both up (one on each side). Then tie wrap them really tight to the body.

Also, the spektrum receiver doesn't seem to fit inside the receiver box so I'm running it exposed.

[cheesecake]

whats the problem why dont the batteries fit?

[bc24fl]

whats the problem why dont the batteries fit?

They fit really tight but I want to put some padding underneath and around for any impact that may occur.

[bc24fl]

LOL I love this sport.. .really.

Too bad for the sport I'm too damn hard headed to quit or throw the car across the room ?&^

As I said earlier, connected everything outside the car and everything fired up quickly. Put her in the car tightened motor and pinion but when I turned it on and gave it gas the motor was making quick blip noises. I thought is was the ESC so I reset everything to default settings and reprogrammed it per instructions and was still getting the many blips when I hit the throttle.

Now I just noticed that the pinion does not move freely (its stuck). Not even a wrench will turn it.

Any ideas?

[Dave D]

"NITRO" is all I can say.
Just kidding, see if you can get ahold of BringItOn -Rick Jenkins he might know something

[badassrevo]

What car is it? will the motor run in the car with no pinion? Will the car roll freely on the floor with no pinion?

[bc24fl]

It's the fusion. With motor in my hand I cannot move the pinion. Not even with a wrench.

[badassrevo]

You have issues. if the rotor is jammed do not try to run it. It will pull to many amps and let the smoke out of your ESC. Looks like warranty time. Or you could take it apart and make sure there is nothing in side that should not be in there.

[bc24fl]

Took out the mounting screws and motor spinned fine but with a slight tinging noise. It appears that the mounting screws went too far in and dented the metal inside on both sides I put the screws in. The screws I used came with the sport kit?

I think that alone voided the warranty.

I think I'm el-screwed!

[bc24fl]

Took out the mounting screws and motor spinned fine but with a slight tinging noise. It appears that the mounting screws went too far in and dented the metal inside on both sides I put the screws in. The screws I used came with the sport kit?

I think that alone voided the warranty.

I think I'm el-screwed!

It appears that the dented metal is touching something slightly though. I wonder if I can just run her like that.

[bc24fl]

Just connected it up and it seems to run fine. Just shimmed it enough so that it no longer touches the inside wall of the motor.

[hakmazter]

Glad to hear it....An electric virgin going through the hassles alone.....

How far is Tampa? Call Adam or Shawn if you need help and it is too far to drive.

You will like it alot better once you get it sorted out. I will bet you on it.

[YDBD]

I really need one of those sound generators so I can run my Fusion in the 1/8 buggy class here on Okinawa---"GP have motor trouble"--race director

[Bill Wyatt]

Ever since I got my Slash and modded that to the gills I find electric racing is pretty stress free....just charge a battery...do what clean up ya need...get your setup how ya want it then walk around and eat pizza and drink sodas until the 8th scale bl buggies run...lol

I also race 8th scale gas onroad and THAT you can never touch with anything electric imo

Anybody that has done the Delta Indoor Winter Series can share tons of not so fun times under the roof filled with nitro smoke and freezin your ass off...you could hear your teeth chatter if you weren't DEAF from all the noise...LOL

I remember this year standing next to Tyler on the drivers stand in our truggy race...about 10 minutes into a 30 minute main he says "I can't feel my hands..." the last 20 minutes was a bashfest...LOL

I still love nitro though...

[razzor]

Bill you need to check out the Speedpassion brushless conversion for the Serpent 960
http://www.speedpassion.net/product.php?lang=&c=44

That thing hauls !!!

[Bill Wyatt]

Bill you need to check out the Speedpassion brushless conversion for the Serpent 960http://www.speedpassion.net/product.php?lang=&c=44

That thing hauls !!!

One of our RAMS members...Rick Yoder...built one of the first bl cars and yeah it does haul...but there's not enough run time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N176o-JueE

...and I'd never hear the end of it if I drove a Serpent...

[razzor]

hAHAHA
You a Mugen boy !?!?

[Bill Wyatt]

hAHAHA
You a Mugen boy !?!?


yessir...lol

actually one of the Team Mugen drivers was with me at Norcal Hobbies...he was looking at the Caster buggy and was liking it...I think he is looking to turn a MBX6 into BL...

[razzor]

For onroad we have very good competition between the Serpent and Mugen guys.
Always good chirping going on :)
I am more a Serpent fan though.

[bc24fl]

Is it true that the Kyosho 1/8 onroad (forgot the name) beats the mugen and serpent in cornering "stock"?

[Bill Wyatt]

For onroad we have very good competition between the Serpent and Mugen guys.
Always good chirping going on :)
I am more a Serpent fan though.

oh you went there!! lol

Yes I have to say the car loyalty runs deep in onroad and the bantering goes even deeper...it gets rather "chirpy" here too in the pits...LOL

"ka<~lol

[Bill Wyatt]

Is it true that the Kyosho 1/8 onroad (forgot the name) beats the mugen and serpent in cornering "stock"?

Evolva...and it depends on who you ask...if you ask Kimbrough hell yes...if you ask Swauger hell no...LOL

I've never compared the two personally right out of the box...I know my X turns insanely fast on or off the gas

[razzor]

1/8 onroad is a class i still would like to race.
Will have to wait though.

[bc24fl]

1/8 onroad is a class i still would like to race.
Will have to wait though.

I hear we (Miami Florida) have one of the best on road tracks in the country. I think I'll take a trip down there this weekend and check it out for the first time.

[slakr]

Big scale electric versus nitro

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ff_1238195551

[bc24fl]

Big scale electric versus nitro

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ff_1238195551

GM or Ford should hire this guy to bring back the excitement of American cars again.

[hakmazter]

Now Dustin has something bigger to do....